From Project Reason
Which of these fairy tales do we wish to teach our children; that Jesus was God or that Jesus was not God? You can have it either way with a careful study of the bible. But how many Christians actually study the bible at all, much less carefully?
Is Jesus God?
Yes, Jesus is God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:1
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.John 1:14
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.John 8:58
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.John 10:30-31
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.John 10:38-39
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.John 14:9
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.John 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Acts 20:28
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.Colossians 1:16
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.Colossians 2:9
God was made manifest in the flesh.1 Timothy 3:16
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.Titus 2:13
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.Philippians 2:6
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Hebrews 1:8
Fear not; I am the first and the last.Revelation 1:17
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Revelation 22:13
No, Jesus is not God.
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.Mark 16:19
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.John 8:40
My Father is greater than I.John 14:28
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.John 20:17
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.Acts 17:31
The head of Christ is God.1 Corinthians 11:3
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.1 Corinthians 15:28
Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.Colossians 3:1
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5
Here are more:
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
But wait! Judas hanged himself reducing the number to 11 (Matt: 27:3-5)
Matthias was not elected (Acts 1:9-26) until after the ascension, proving the bible is not true and there is nothing divine about it.
I love this stuff because it makes preachers dance like a puppet on a string.
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I recently called some of these scriptures to the attention of a bible class and nearly got thrown out of church for doing so. Anyone who has read the bible from an objective position would have to admit that these contradictions actually exist. They also exist in the Hebrew scriptures (our Old Testament). Our bible was written by many different people with different opinions and motives. Their writings were reworked for use as propaganda to further a political cause. Bible scholars can easily find these contradictions and Christians simply refuse to acknowledge them. To do so would destroy their faith. I wasn't thrown out, in fact I had members asking for more information. I feel staying and educating to be a positive experience for me. I don't mind a confrontation when I have facts on my side.
ReplyDeleteJim
DID IT REALLY HAPPEN?
ReplyDelete(THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO)
Joshua called upon the Lord and the sun and moon stopped moving to give more time for fighting. “The sun stood still, and the moon stayed until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies”. “Is not this written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and halted not to go down a whole day and there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel”. Josh. 10:12-14.
There you have it, a clear historical account coming from our Holy Bible inspired by God himself. Anyone denying this as an accurate account would be killed by the church. In fact, Galileo knew very well this was impossible since it meant the sun revolved around the earth and that the earth was the center of the universe. Using his telescope, Galileo discovered the truth and made the mistake of sharing it with the public. The church put him in prison intending to kill him even though he was a faithful member of the church. Considering this and wanting to “show mercy”, they allowed him to live the rest of his life in confinement after forcing him to recant. In spite of the fact we have known the truth for hundreds of years; the church didn’t officially admit it until the end of the 20th century. Hear are the reasons why it didn’t happen.
Reason number one:
The earth along with our other planets all revolve around the sun. It is the earth, moon and other planets that move. Also, the moon gives no light of its own.
Reason number two:
Had this happened, it would have been a world wide event and civilized nations would have recorded it.
Reason number three:
The Book of Jasher (now lost and not considered inspired) was used as its source.
Reason number four:
There is no archaeological evidence , Gibeon, like many other battle sites in the Book of Joshua, had no occupants in the time of Joshua. How can you kill people who don’t exist/
Reason number five:
The preceding verse (Josh. 10:11) indicates they had already been wiped out. “And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel and were going down to Beth-horan, that the Lord cast great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died; the were more hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword”. Josh. 10:11
Jim
Continued
ReplyDeleteSo, why was this story told? The history of the Hebrews had been one of struggling for a self-identity. Like other nations around them, they needed a god or gods to protect them. All other nations had many gods who often opposed each other. The Hebrews needed just one powerful god who had no competition (remember”Thou shall have no other gods before me”). They chose YHWH. He was always being tested and according to His people, he always won. The gods of the sun and moon were among the gods of other nations. They were called by different names such as RE for the Egyptian god. The object of this story written hundreds of years after the time of its supposed occurrence was to show that the Hebrew God was the strongest of all the other gods. He made them stay in their place as impotent helpless gods who could not interfere with the Hebrew God. It wasn’t about allowing more time for Joshua to fight. In fact, nothing actually happened in the verses that followed, God had actually stoned most of them to death. All Joshua had to do was kill the ones the rocks missed.
This is just one example of stories that are easily disproved. Unfortunately, fundamentalists will still insist it is a factual event coming directly from God. Our younger people are able to learn these things on their own and leave the church. In order to survive as an institution, churches must accept the truth. Until churches are willing to seek the truth and restructure the church to meet the physical and social needs of people, it will continue to crumble from its own weight. The March of Dimes Organization spent years trying to find a cure for polio. When it happened, they were in a state of shock. What was next? They had a huge financial institution with many people and buildings and nothing to do. If they closed down, what would happen to the people and building? The answer was simple, find another worthy cause. That is my dream for all religions, not just my own. Do we really need to keep people out of a place in the afterlife that doesn’t exist? Will this ever happen? Highly unlikely, but like Charlie Brown, I’ll still and kick that football.
Jim
Ignore the few mistakes in my previous posts. If you feel the need, just add a word, comma, question mark etc.
ReplyDeleteJim
Jim said: "I recently called some of these scriptures to the attention of a bible class and nearly got thrown out of church for doing so."
ReplyDeleteYou see Jim, the problem is you are placing more reliance on what you know than what someone claims was "revealed" to them. We should never allow god to make a revelation to another man who then reveals it to us. We should demand that if god has something to say, he/she/it must say it directly to us.
The real question is whether the bible is inspired. If it is true it doesn't have to be inspired because truth requires no inspiration. It will stand on it's own and can be verified by evidence. Faith just won't do. Are we to believe we are all so stupid that the only way to convey worthwhile information is by revelation? If all the money wasted on all the religions in the world were instead invested in education, we would already be living in that paradise that all Christians think they are going to when they die.
The answers are within us. Not some imaginary sky daddy.
In the Gospel of Thomas,you find this: Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."
ReplyDeleteFaith is hidden, so what do you think the writer of the Gospel of Thomas is telling you? By they way, it is a gnostic (meaning to know) writing. No wonder they wouldn't make a part of our bible. They didn't want you to know what is hidden from you.
Jim
"Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."
ReplyDeleteThe question is, why should anything be hidden? Just some more gobblydegook to keep "believers" confused. You would thing if JC is really interested in us he would want us to know everything.
Charlie, the point is what the writer is saying. Even fundamentalists will admit we have nothing written by Jesus. For that reason, the focus should be on the one or ones doing the writing. Just because someone quotes you as having said something means nothing. Your post makes that quite clear. Our entire bible indicates that problem. It's not God or Jesus who presents us with the problems and contradictions. Whether there actually is a God or Jesus is not the point. It is all about what the writers "claim" they said and that gets at heart of the matter. Unfortunately religious people insist God and Jesus "actually said and did" what the writer said. This puts those who may not believe God and Jesus existed in the position of acknowledging their existence in order to argue against their position. I look for the motives of the writer. A close examination of what is written often reveals the religious group responsible for having put the words in the mouth of God or Jesus. In the case of the Gospel of Thomas, the writer was not a part of the orthodox group and may not have believed he rose from the dead, but saw him only as a prophet. The followers of Jesus in Jerusalem definitely disagreed with Paul and thought him to be a heritic. It is unfortunate we fail to understand the writings of the different religious groups are included in our bible (both Old and New Testaments). The result is a convoluted account of what each individual group may have believed. And just because they believed it doesn't mean it actually happened. So, where does that leave us? AND THE SEARCH GOES ON!
ReplyDeleteJim
"AND THE SEARCH GOES ON!"
ReplyDeleteHas a rather sisyphean flavor to it.
Sisyphean? I had to look it up but, I like it even though my head stays sore.
ReplyDeleteJim