California Gal wrote this in response to my blog entitled, "Burning the Koran."
"Charlie, I so agree with you in general principle. I have Muslim friends, exceptions probably, who do condemn those killing others, though. Could it be that those people just don't have a voice?"
Well of course they have a voice but here's the thing. Would your Muslim friends refute the Koran; the very document their religion is built on? Muslims like to claim theirs is a religion of peace, but just read what the Koran has to say and judge for yourself whether Isalm is a religion of peace. Here are just a few examples. There are many, many more. “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you.”(2:190).
“Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense” 3:28). “Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal” (3:118).
“Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not” (2:216). “We shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate” (2:126).
“The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing (2:172).
“How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism” (2:176). “Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!’” (3:12).
“You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . . You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians’” (5:80–82).
“The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God’s revelations should know that swift is God’s reckoning.” (3:19)
“Let not the unbelievers think that we prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them” (3:178).
“Those that deny our revelation we will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise” (4:55–56).
“Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime” (5:57).
“Yes, the Bible contains its own sadistic lunacy—but the above quotations can be fairly said to convey the central message of the Qur’an—and of Islam at nearly every moment in its history. The Qur’an does not contain anything like a Sermon on the Mount. Nor is it a vast and self-contradictory book like the Old Testament, in which whole sections (like Leviticus and Deuteronomy) can be easily ignored and forgotten. The result is a unified message of triumphalism, otherworldliness, and religious hatred that has become a problem for the entire world. And the world still waits for moderate Muslims to speak honestly about it.” Sam Harris
You see CA Gal, Christians and Muslims have the same problem. They are Christians and Muslims because that is what was drummed into their heads as children before their brains were developed enough to think critically and logically. If anyone doubts that to be true, why do you find so few Muslims in Alabama or Arkansas and so few Baptists (none actually) in Saudi Arabia and so many Mormons in Utah? (If a Mormon or Baptist were caught at the annual Muslim ceremony called the Hajj, they would be lucky to leave with their heads still attached to their bodies.)
In order to claim to be a Christian, you cannot accuse Jesus of being a liar when he claims in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
In other words, Jesus is saying, "It's my way or the highway." There is nothing ambiguous or unclear here. Jesus is declaring that anyone on the planet that does not believe he is their "personal savior" (as of April 17th 2011 that would be about 4 billion 556 million of us) is headed straight for hell. And that massive number does not include all the people who have already died rejecting him and all those that are yet to be born who reject him. Christians cannot deny that Gentle Jesus Meek and Mild threatened billions to eternal hell because it's right there in their holy inerrant bible for everyone to see.
Want another example? "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me." (Luke 19:17) Jesus, if his command in Luke 19:17 were carried out today, would make the Holocaust look like a Sunday school picnic. Jesus confirms this himself: Matt. 7:13, 14. "Enter in at the strait gate! Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction. There will be many that go that way. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads to life. Only a few will find it."
I don't know how Jesus would define "few". Most certainly it would not be more than 33%. That is how many so-called "Christians" inhabit the planet as I write this. And included within that 33% are all the Catholic priests humping little boys and fondling little girls; preachers and deacons having affairs with their "flock" and Baptists caught hanging out in Hooters. If Jesus excluded them, then most certainly, "only a few will find it."
I have resigned myself to the depressing thought that few people's minds can be changed once their minds have been poisoned as youngsters. And here is why. If someone does not value evidence, what evidence can you provide to make them understand? If someone does not value logic, what logical argument can you provide to enlighten them? All good arguments are based on evidence and logic and its fruitless to even begin the discussion with people who believe ridiculous things without evidence, because the discussion is over before it begins.
To see how ludicrous this whole thing is, ask any Christian why they don't lay awake at night wondering whether they should convert to Islam. The less intelligent may have to think about it for a moment but most will eventually get around to admitting that there is no evidence that Islam is true. Ask any Muslim the same question. You will get the same answer. They will have to admit that there is not enough evidence to believe that Jesus is their personal savior.
As I have written before, the greatest insult one can hand another is to reject a gift, given in good faith. If there is a god, it was he/she/it that gave us our 1400 cc brains. Not to use that gift is paramount to a rejection of it. I can't think of a single thing that would piss god off more than rejecting a gift from him. And the bible itself illustrates just how easily he is pissed off. If he can strike Uzza dead for involuntarily reaching out to steady the Ark when its about to topple off the oxcart, (1 Chronicles 13:10) you have no idea what he has in store for you for wantonly wasting your brain power by choosing to remain ignorant. If he can turn a woman into a pillar of salt for a nervous glance over her shoulder, (Gen 19:26) you have no idea what punishment he has waiting for you for failing to use his priceless gift of a brain.
In biblical times men didn't understand the natural world and were scared out of their wits. They imagined gods that could be appealed to. I get that. What I don't get is why so many believers try to tell me to believe just in case and use fear to try to get me to believe what they do. This only illustrates how stupid they are. Any imbecile should understand that if there was a Jesus, he could see right through that cowardly ruse.
So I leave you with a question. Who do you have the most respect for; someone who is courageous enough to admit what he/she really believes, or a hypocrite who pretends to believe but doesn’t? Something tells me the latter is a dime a dozen.
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I am sorry that the paragraphs didn't display as they were written. Makes this thing almost impossible to read. I "redid" it three times and it still didn't work. I'll get the world's greatest geek, Mavis' son Sam, to try to figure this out.
ReplyDeleteDisregard. Grasshopper figured it out.
ReplyDeleteThis topic came up in our Bible class last Sunday.
ReplyDeleteThe founding pastor at Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Mich., Bell is about to publish his latest book, "Love Wins: Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived."
In the book he delivers an optimistic message about the afterlife, challenging the Christian notion of hell while asking the questions, as he also does in his promotional videos: "Will only a few select people make it to heaven? And will billions and billions burn forever in hell?"
No, posits Bell -- eternal life doesn't start when we die; it starts right now.
But other members of the evangelical community are calling his notions heresy.
I sat quietly (as usual) just like a cat waiting for the sparrow to light on the water trough. The class agreed he must have never even read the Bible. Eventually, the sparrow lite on the trough (in a manner of speaking). I finally spoke up and said. I don't think we really believe in hell. Here is why. I have had two different people challenge me on that issue over the years. Forty years ago our preacher said if we really believed in a hell, we would literally drag a neighbor to church like we would do so if the house was on fire. I was challenged just a few years ago by a friend (he was not named) who is a non-believer using almost the same words. They both correctly stated that if we really believed in hell we would have to be sorry people not to knock on every door of non-believers and convert them. They preacher was trying to shame us and my friend was trying to expose our true belief. You should have heard the excuses. I didn't let up and admitted both they and I do not really believe in hell or either we are a sorry lot. I would not admit I was a bad person. I'm sure some were hoping there is a hell that they may direct me directly to it!
Jim
Great comment, Jim.
ReplyDeleteIn another vein, Bart Ehrman just came out with a new book, "Forged" which I ordered on Amazon. Just a preliminary look leads me to believe you would really enjoy it. In the length excerpt, I could almost hear you talking.
Meant to say "lengthy."
ReplyDeleteThe Apostle Paul never threatens or even mentions hell as a place of punishment. Had he believed in an eternal place of punishment he would have threatened his enemies ( Jewish followers of the man Yeshua whom we call Jesus) which was led by James his brother. They thought he was a heretic and Paul was always on the defensive. In Galatians, he said he wished those insisting on circumcision for his gentiles would castrate themselves.
ReplyDeleteJim
Charlie, hope you are enjoying this weekend of honoring God's wife Asherah. Hints of this this are still to be found in our old testament. It's a long story, so I'll just share a bit of it. She was called by many names. We now honor her as EASTER. Just rearrange the letters and have some fun. I copied this from different sources. Notice it was The Venerable Bede, a Catholic, who was honest enough to admit this. At least part of it.
ReplyDeleteGod had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar.
The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime
I shall go and hide my own Easter eggs.
Jim
Ah! So God had a DP (Domestic Partner) just like me. I'll bet she found her husband was hell to live with, if you will pardon the pun.
ReplyDeleteSo Sunday, hundreds of millions of delusional faithful will drag themselves out of bed, get all dressed up in their Sunday best and head off to celebrate a mythical character who they think actually came back alive after being dead. They have been waiting nearly 2000 years for his return, even after he clearly promised to be back before some of his followers died.
This just goes to show how the human mind can be screwed up if we start messing with it at an early age before it attains the power of reason and logic.
1 child under 5 dies every 5 seconds as a result of hunger - 700 every hour - 16 000 each day - 6 million each year.
"Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Matt: 19:14
Well, looks like Gentle Jesus Meek and Mild gets close to 12 little children each and every minute 24/7.
Suffer unto me the little children indeed.
I can only imagine what the Jesus (ie. Yeshua or Joshua; take your pick) whom we find in the Gospel of Thomas (who didn't seem to doubt in this non-canonical book) would say about our USA god. If you read it closely, he or his followers believed more in the heaven and hell we create for ourselves. I
ReplyDeleteThe Gospel of Thomas is a much more believable book than our four canonical ones. Even these four leave hints that escaped the editing making it clear the earliest or perhaps even Jesus didn't consider himself equal with God. For example, John has him saying, "I go to my father because he is greater than I". So much for Jesus being equal to God as the Nicean Council and fundamentalists claim. That among other isolated texts glossed over by the faithful were missed by 2000 years of editing. You know it was missed since the first part of the Gospel of John makes it clear that this editor was claiming Jesus was with God in the beginning and in fact is equal with God. The editors never imagined scholars actually reading those works. That's the reason the church would kill you if you were caught reading the Bible.
Jim